[17:21]  Ling Guardian: Hi Agent
[17:22]  Agent Heliosense: hi sending out group notices
[17:22]  Ling Guardian: thanks
[17:22]  Ling Guardian: By the way, Art won't be able to join us today
[17:25]  Agent Heliosense: ok
[17:25]  Ling Guardian: Have you read Marie's email that you were cc-ed in?
[17:26]  Agent Heliosense: yes so as I read, she wants to develop something but cannot do so until later in November
[17:26]  Ling Guardian: She was one of the designers whose exhibit was chosen for the Water theme
[17:26]  Agent Heliosense: correct
[17:27]  Ling Guardian: Yes, she's still able to do it on the website after the deadline... we will not be evaluating it so soon to give her some time
[17:27]  Ling Guardian: if she wants to meet up on SL to discuss her ideas we'll arrange for a separate meeting with her
[17:27]  Agent Heliosense: sounds fine
[17:27]  Ling Guardian: Morning Megadolen
[17:27]  Agent Heliosense: there's not a "contest" so therefore no rules to apply
[17:28]  Agent Heliosense: that's fine yes
[17:28]  Agent Heliosense: hi Megadolen
[17:28]  Megadolen Resident: Hi Ling, hi Agent
[17:29]  Agent Heliosense: so well how's that going with the students or student groups etc.. Was there any connection made to invite them to input concepts for the Toilet Science project.
[17:30]  Ling Guardian: Megadolen is still following up with them... she's spoken to one who has got an idea but yet to put it on the website
[17:30]  Megadolen Resident: We did invite the students again.
[17:30]  Megadolen Resident: Some of them are still keen to post their ideas
[17:30]  Megadolen Resident: One recently added some more comments on the Aquarium project he posted earlier on, and I heard he will be doing more research on that as well.
[17:31]  Megadolen Resident: Yup, the one who hasn't post is another student.
[17:31]  Megadolen Resident: Hence, we might have another project on the website.
[17:32]  Agent Heliosense: Well one thing I have wanted to do is - make it an assignment. An exercise, that they take their science ideas/knowledge/data and communicate it in the exhibit format. It's not at all different from say, science fairs in some ways.
[17:32]  Agent Heliosense: Also, no , they do not have to use Second Life here to do that
[17:33]  Megadolen Resident: Something like a communication tool?
[17:33]  Agent Heliosense: they can make a display of their concept in Word, or use pencils s and pens to sketch and then photo with camera. All this is lot easier than it was even a few years ago with camera phones.
[17:34]  Agent Heliosense: then upload that to the Project .
[17:34]  Megadolen Resident: I see.
[17:34]  Agent Heliosense: Well, yes, Second Life is the ultimate communication and collaboration tool
[17:34]  Agent Heliosense: However
[17:35]  Agent Heliosense: Because it is so advanced, the number of users will be necessarily very low.
[17:35]  Ling Guardian: Yes, that's true.None of the students that we talked to knows how to build on SL
[17:35]  Agent Heliosense: These advanced interfaces probably cannot be used by those who cannot devote some time to learning it.
[17:35]  Megadolen Resident: Yes
[17:36]  Agent Heliosense: In fact, the situation where people cannot use it speaks to it's advanced nature - because it is used so skillfully once learned.
[17:36]  Agent Heliosense: This is one of Doug Engelbart's key points about computers, the mouse etc. when they developed these in the 1960's.
[17:36]  Agent Heliosense: It was like tryng to fly an alien spacecraft.
[17:37]  Ling Guardian: :-)
[17:37]  Ling Guardian: That's a good anology
[17:37]  Agent Heliosense: Therefore, these students may have other tools to express themselves.
[17:37]  Agent Heliosense: Bring it on and actually you only need like 1 image to convey an idea.
[17:39]  Agent Heliosense: So in running these competitions and design exercises, we have been developing The Tech Virtual since 2007 or 2008.
[17:39]  Megadolen Resident: Yup, right now, they are just relying on word submissions though
[17:39]  Agent Heliosense: I tend to find that we can communicate a lot with images and text.
[17:39]  Agent Heliosense: So the website http://www.thetechvirtual.org was optmized for that.
[17:40]  Megadolen Resident: yup, they complement each other.
[17:40]  Ling Guardian: We can always ask the students to do a sketch of how they envision their exhibit to be
[17:40]  Agent Heliosense: Also we know that the amount of virtual world users is very small.
[17:40]  Agent Heliosense: the amount that can develop ideas into 3D models is even smaller.
[17:41]  Ling Guardian: By the way, we couldn't build on the sandbox last week
[17:41]  Agent Heliosense: the amount that can develop ideas into 3D models, and care about museums is even smaller.
[17:41]  Ling Guardian: it says that region is full
[17:41]  Agent Heliosense: I cleared it it's fine now.
[17:41]  Agent Heliosense: and the amount that care about any given topic is even smaller.
[17:41]  Agent Heliosense: so therefore, this virtual world tool is ideal for a small subset of people.
[17:42]  Agent Heliosense: for everyone else, they need to simply upload a photo and compose words to describe their idea
[17:43]  Agent Heliosense: When they developed The Tech Virtual idea - indeed when Doug Engelbart envisioned a collaborative computer system
[17:43]  Agent Heliosense: it was envisioned to have millons of users with an advanced capacity.
[17:44]  Agent Heliosense: This is not necessarily the case, and so this is partly why we see less uptake here in Second Life for this project, the numbers are very very small.
[17:44]  Agent Heliosense: However, the industry as a whole would learn a lot if
[17:44]  Agent Heliosense: you take the ideas for Toilet Science and upload them to http://www.thetechvirtual.org/requests/toilet-science
[17:44]  Agent Heliosense: Why?
[17:45]  Agent Heliosense: because otherwise you develop in a vacuum, your colleagues at other museums develop in a vacuum, and the whole industry is like feudal states
[17:45]  Agent Heliosense: warring feudal state
[17:45]  Agent Heliosense: states
[17:45]  Megadolen Resident: true
[17:45]  Megadolen Resident: it is like an information sharing portal
[17:45]  Agent Heliosense: it's like that and the market for ideas is so limited compared to the for-profit market, it's embarrasing
[17:45]  Agent Heliosense: yes
[17:45]  Megadolen Resident: resource base
[17:46]  Ling Guardian: that's true
[17:46]  Ling Guardian: how's the uptake on the other requests on Tech Virtual?
[17:46]  Agent Heliosense: correct so our project is asking whether the science museum industry is confident enough to collaborate
[17:47]  Agent Heliosense: or if they feel that they have to hide their secrets
[17:47]  Agent Heliosense: their ideas for some reason, and leave the greater industry somewhat impaired because
[17:47]  Agent Heliosense: all of these markets are localized.
[17:47]  Ling Guardian: well... for us, we also wanted to engage non Science Museum/ Science Centre people
[17:47]  Ling Guardian: to get ideas from people who are not in the industry
[17:48]  Megadolen Resident: Are there other Museums doing similar subject, i.e. toilet science?
[17:48]  Agent Heliosense: So they don't have to use Second Life, let's leave that out of it. But anyway, this is the core idea.
[17:48]  Agent Heliosense: Well I did find that Barcelona's museum of ideas MIBA has an interactive restroom!
[17:49]  Megadolen Resident: haha, that's true
[17:49]  Agent Heliosense: so can you see that, if they posted what they did online, then you could learn from it.
[17:49]  Megadolen Resident: yup
[17:49]  Agent Heliosense: Then, they could learn from others who do the same.
[17:50]  Agent Heliosense: Otherwise you have to rely on me, who had to go into their restroom and take photos and that was a little odd!
[17:50]  Ling Guardian: true... it's a good platform for people to share their ideas
[17:50]  Agent Heliosense: then I'd have to tell you about it.
[17:50]  Agent Heliosense: Thanks for listening and I'm happy to hear why you think this is a good idea or doomed to failure.
[17:51]  Ling Guardian: it is a good idea and I'm glad that Tech has such a platform
[17:52]  Agent Heliosense: hooray - hey also if the time zone lines up we are streaming our conference
[17:52]  Agent Heliosense: http://testzone2011.eventbrite.com/
[17:52]  Agent Heliosense: I would have to check the time zone, not sure what that is in SG.
[17:53]  Megadolen Resident: Well, it is good that we are constantly promoting it, even to the students who might one day be working in a similar industry. Having been involved in their student life will kind of embed the it in them. Next time, the platform might just come back to them again. :)
[17:53]  Agent Heliosense: Great, yes.
[17:53]  Agent Heliosense: We get inquiries all the time "How can I participate in exhibit design?"
[17:54]  Agent Heliosense: So the conduit is open, for anyone, that's a good thing.
[17:54]  Agent Heliosense: And any museum can participate , free. The admission price is a bit of courage.
[17:55]  Agent Heliosense: Courage to say, YES, there might be some good ideas out there we have not thought of.
[17:55]  Ling Guardian: Can you tell us a bit more anout the Test Zone?
[17:55]  Ling Guardian: about the Test Zone
[17:56]  Agent Heliosense: Sure,. When they set up The Tech Virtual, the idea was that the exhbits might be fabricated first as prototypes,
[17:56]  Agent Heliosense: in Second Life, and maybe in reality too.
[17:56]  Agent Heliosense: Then, those ideas would move into more permanent galleries.
[17:56]  Agent Heliosense: So, we are getting back to that idea.
[17:56]  Agent Heliosense: more in the real life way.
[17:57]  Ling Guardian: so all the ideas for exhibits on Test Zone are from Tech Virtual?
[17:57]  Agent Heliosense: And we have implemented feedback stations which are similar to feedback you could get in a virtual world. And so anyone can send feedback to you, from an exhibit.
[17:59]  Agent Heliosense: Would you like to designate an exhbiit at Science Centre Singapore as a "Test Zone" exhibit? Maybe an experimental one.
[17:59]  Agent Heliosense: greetings ThomasSJ
[18:00]  Agent Heliosense: DJ sorry
[18:00]  ThomasDJ Resident: Greetings Bob!
[18:00]  ThomasDJ Resident: no worries
[18:00]  Ling Guardian: Who designed the exhibits in Test Zone?
[18:00]  Megadolen Resident: Oh, we have a bodiless robot joining us!
[18:01]  Agent Heliosense: Great question Ling - it was a collaboration between people outside and our engineers and designers.
[18:01]  Agent Heliosense: Perhaps mesh?
[18:02]  Ling Guardian: did they meet physically on virtually?
[18:02]  ThomasDJ Resident: just testing folks
[18:03]  Agent Heliosense: Virtually - through Tech Virtual - well this was a best case scenario with Pixel http://www.thetechvirtual.org/projects/pixel
[18:03]  Ling Guardian: What does designating an exhibit in SIngapore as a Test Zone exhibit encompass?
[18:05]  Agent Heliosense: Select an exhibit and set up an iPad as a "feedback station" or provide a QR code there so it can be input without a physical kiosk on a mobile device.
[18:05]  Megadolen Resident: Yup, do we put a virtual exhibit there for comments?
[18:05]  Agent Heliosense: No, can be real exhibit
[18:05]  Agent Heliosense: or actually I mean it has to be real exhibit - can be a prototype.
[18:06]  Agent Heliosense: or something you want to "test" - maybe it's not ready for full development as an exhibit.
[18:06]  Ling Guardian: For the Test Zone in TEch, how are you collecting the feedback?
[18:07]  Megadolen Resident: I see
[18:07]  Megadolen Resident: It's more seeking feedback for something we are already going to build
[18:07]  Ling Guardian: That will be good for evaluation purposes
[18:07]  Agent Heliosense: There is a form, and this enables direct feedback from the visitor from a real location. This one is not virtual at all .
[18:08]  Agent Heliosense: That's the idea, yes. Like a prototype
[18:08]  Agent Heliosense: Have you done user study on exhibits on the floor before you build an exhibit?
[18:09]  Ling Guardian: We are just in the process of planning one ;-)
[18:09]  Ling Guardian: We will be opening a new exhibition called Uniquely You in November.
[18:09]  Agent Heliosense: Is that genetics?
[18:09]  Ling Guardian: We are planning to open the area before the launch for feedback
[18:10]  Ling Guardian: we're using paper form for this as well
[18:10]  Ling Guardian: to ask about what they think of the exhibits and how we can improve it...
[18:10]  Megadolen Resident: Sorry, accidentally clicked the wrong thing and I started walking.
[18:10]  Ling Guardian: no it's not on genetics, it's more on human body
[18:11]  Megadolen Resident: Sounds like Test Zone is the platform for this eval then... :)
[18:11]  Agent Heliosense: do you have any iPads or other computer screens available for the survey? Let's add it.
[18:12]  Agent Heliosense: You can use QR code but few people in US use it. We have invested in a few iPad2s for this.
[18:12]  Ling Guardian: well... we were still thinking about whether or not to put it on survey monkey so that we can use Ipad for the feedback
[18:12]  Agent Heliosense: That requires a lock-down though so it's not cheap.
[18:13]  Ling Guardian: in our case, we do need people to actually ask the questions as there's an observation part to the evaluation
[18:13]  Agent Heliosense: You can use the iPad and enter it too.
[18:13]  Agent Heliosense: You could do either, yes that would be great.
[18:14]  Agent Heliosense: If you have evaluators asking questions with WiFi they can submit the form
[18:14]  Ling Guardian: true...
[18:14]  Ling Guardian: we might just try that
[18:14]  Agent Heliosense: wow i'm glad you mentioned it. When does this beta thing open?
[18:15]  Ling Guardian: we are aiming for next week ;-)
[18:15]  Ling Guardian: we are working on the questions right now
[18:15]  Agent Heliosense: How many questions/
[18:15]  Ling Guardian: the exhibits are more or less ready on the ground
[18:15]  Ling Guardian: about 7 questions
[18:15]  Agent Heliosense: So the evaluators would carry iPads?
[18:16]  Ling Guardian: but some oare open ended questions as we are evaluating the whole area... so we have questions like which is your favourite exhibit...
[18:16]  Ling Guardian: we will only have 2 evaluators at one time so we could use Ipad for that
[18:16]  Agent Heliosense: ok so maybe you are counting on physical written response from visitors. That's ok of course but would have to be entered later.
[18:17]  Ling Guardian: we are looking at both
[18:17]  Ling Guardian: both paper and online
[18:18]  Ling Guardian: cause this is the first time we're doing this...
[18:18]  Ling Guardian: not sure which will be better
[18:18]  Agent Heliosense: That's so interesting so if you want, in advance to the conference, we can set it up part of Test Zone as an example of using this method.
[18:19]  Agent Heliosense: Actually SCS has been a core partner since Andy visited.
[18:19]  Ling Guardian: I'll check with Art about this...
[18:19]  Ling Guardian: well... hopefully we'll have more to share with you next friday
[18:20]  Ling Guardian: we would have done some feedback session by then
[18:20]  Agent Heliosense: OK select some questions, that is really important'
[18:21]  Ling Guardian: who sort of questions are you asking in Test ZOne?
[18:21]  Ling Guardian: for us, we are asking quite practical questions like are the exhibits easy to use?
[18:21]  Ling Guardian: are the instructions clear?
[18:21]  Agent Heliosense: Working on that, they must be fast and casual questions if not administered by an evaluator human!
[18:22]  Agent Heliosense: Those are good questions yes
[18:23]  Agent Heliosense: ok well you want to check with Art and we'll reconvene on this -
[18:24]  Agent Heliosense: meanwhile did he compile the ideas from the discussions about toilets, that was our singular focus!
[18:24]  Ling Guardian: yes he did...he has looked through the chat log and highlighted ideas that were discussed
[18:24]  Megadolen Resident: Yup, he did
[18:25]  Megadolen Resident: It was in the additional resource
[18:25]  Ling Guardian: he wanted to post it up on Tech Virtual
[18:25]  Megadolen Resident: a pdf file
[18:25]  Agent Heliosense: ok
[18:25]  Ling Guardian: sorry... back to Test Zone, do yoiu have a set of standard questions used for all the exhibits there?
[18:26]  Agent Heliosense: or you can post the text maybe
[18:26]  Agent Heliosense: Ling, yes I would like your suggestions on that - it depends what you want to ask and I'm thinking it might be different for each exhibit? What do you think?
[18:27]  Ling Guardian: depends on what you want to find out...
[18:27]  Ling Guardian: for us the focus is to find areas that we can improve the exhibits
[18:28]  Ling Guardian: that's why we asks qns like ease of use and instructions
[18:28]  Agent Heliosense: Yes so, if it's administered questions with a human, this can be a lot more complext
[18:28]  Ling Guardian: we'll share with you the questions that we ask once we work out the questions propoerly
[18:29]  Ling Guardian: will that be useful/
[18:29]  Agent Heliosense: sure, think it through and then we'll go from there.
[18:30]  Ling Guardian: ok... thanks
[18:30]  Agent Heliosense: I wish you could attend on November 15
[18:30]  Agent Heliosense: anyone want to make a presentation on how you want to change the museum industry let me know
[18:31]  Agent Heliosense: I will add you as a speaker -
[18:31]  Ling Guardian: we'll check out the timing... but it might be really late in the night for us
[18:32]  Ling Guardian: alright... we'll see you next week
[18:32]  Megadolen Resident: cya!
[18:32]  Agent Heliosense: Ok - thanks, this was great and sorry you'll have to bring Art up to speed.
[18:33]  Ling Guardian: No problem... it was a good chat today
[18:33]  Ling Guardian: will bring Art to speed about the Test Zone
[18:34]  Agent Heliosense: ThomasDJ if you get ideas for Toilet Science exhibits you can send them as a Project at http://www.thetechvirtual.org/requests/tech-test-zone-2011
[18:34]  Agent Heliosense: sorry no
[18:34]  ThomasDJ Resident: sure thing Bob
[18:34]  Agent Heliosense: wrong link
[18:34]  Agent Heliosense: http://www.thetechvirtual.org/requests/toilet-science
[18:34]  ThomasDJ Resident: gotcha
[18:34]  Agent Heliosense: ok Ling and Megadolen thanks glad we got to chat
[18:35]  Megadolen Resident: Hv a good wkend.
[18:35]  Ling Guardian: see you
[18:35]  Megadolen Resident: I'm still trying to send out invites to pple
[18:35]  Megadolen Resident: Only managed to do a few in the last 15 mins...
[18:35]  Megadolen Resident: Hope for the best next wk!
[18:36]  Agent Heliosense: for toilet manufacturers you mean?
[18:36]  Megadolen Resident: lol, ya
[18:36]  Agent Heliosense: ok
[18:36]  Agent Heliosense: see you next weke
[18:36]  Agent Heliosense: week
[18:37]  Agent Heliosense: adios amigos!